Friday, December 7, 2007

Do Mormons teach that we can become Gods?

Do Mormons teach that we can become Gods? Doesn't the bible say we cannot.

-We absolutely do teach that doctrine. Do you really think if you go to heaven to live with God (who is your literal Father) that all you do is strum a harp and sing hymns, forever? –I’m obviously being a little facetious here, but seriously, think about it.
Now here’s what the Bible does say:
Paul, speaking to the Romans, said,
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
‘And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” –Romans 8:16-17
Now, if we really are “children of God,” when we eternally grow up, who do we become like? Our Father. Also, if we are joint-heirs with Christ, what do we jointly inherit? Well, Christ said “All things that the Father hath are mine.” –John 16:15
So, if we are children of God, live forever in heaven, and jointly inherit all things that the father hath, what does that make you?
Jesus actually answered this question when speaking to the Jews:
“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
‘If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?” –John 10:34 (Christ quoted Ps 82:6: “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.”)
The scripture cannot be broken.

2 comments:

Lance said...

Jesus used the term “gods” to describe how they presented themsevles. Look at the very next verse; Psalm 82:7; “But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” God says that although you present yourselves as "gods", you are really just mere men! The word "god"(note lower case G) is used to describe those whot have authority over people in certain circumstances.

We must remember:
Isaiah 44:6; "I am the first and I am the last apart from me there is no God.”
Isaiah 46:9; "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me."
Isaiah 43:10; "Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."
Isaiah 45:21-22; "...there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."

Furthermore; you and I cannot become a god; no matter how hard you try. God does not have a god-wife. God has always been God; He was not a man from another planet before He became God. If He did, where did it all start? And if it had a start then it has to have an end. God is timeless; He has always existed and will always exist. Jesus did not exist separate from God before the creation of the universe. Lucifer is not the brother of Jesus; he is a fallen angel. I could go on but I won't. I pray that the lies of the Mormon truth would be revealed to you. I pray that God will give you the strength to step away from these lies and see the truth.

Rusty Curtis said...

Hello Lance-

Ani ohev ze Tanakh. Ve Atah?

Sorry it took me a day to get back to you. I just now have the chance to sit down and respond to your comments. Before I do though, I just wanted to let you know that I have studied Hebrew, and you and I will be using a little bit of it to work out your assertions. I understand that you mean well, but I hope that when we’re done, you won’t rush to make the same comments. This will not be an argument. This will merely be a discussion of these topics, so that other readers will have an opportunity to review the subject. I would also like to emphasize that I speak on my own accord, not the Church’s, and I submit that my following comments are from my limited knowledge.

COMMENT PART 1:
“Jesus used the term “gods” to describe how they presented themsevles. Look at the very next verse; Psalm 82:7; “But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” God says that although you present yourselves as "gods", you are really just mere men! The word "god"(note lower case G) is used to describe those whot have authority over people in certain circumstances.”

RESPONSE:

-“gods” in this example is translated fromאלהימ (el-o-heem). This is the same exact word translated as “God” in nearly every instance throughout the Old Testament, including “In the beginning “God” created the heaven and the Earth” (Gen. 1:1) An important thing to know about Hebrew is that adding the “im” or “ot” is usually how to pluralize. –Depending on word gender and context. A literal definition would be “Gods.”

-Capitalization is not relevant because there is no such concept (no capital letters) in Hebrew. The differentiation between “Gods” and “gods” is a moot point. Any interpretation based of this reasoning (a difference between “Gods” and “gods”) is an interpolation in something that doesn’t even exist.

-The Lord saying “I have said, Ye are gods,” In a sarcastic or facetious way, followed with “and all of you are children of the most high,” in a truthful way (Acts 17:29), doesn’t make sense (in my opinion). Both parts are either sarcastic/facetious, or both parts are true. Since holy writ states we are all the “offspring of God” (Acts 17:29, also Romans 8:16) I am lead to the conclusion that both statements in this verse are true and literal.

COMMENT PART 2:
“We must remember:
Isaiah 44:6; "I am the first and I am the last apart from me there is no God.”
Isaiah 46:9; "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me."
Isaiah 43:10; "Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."
Isaiah 45:21-22; "...there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."

RESPONSE:

-We just mentioned above how the true rendering of “God” throughout the Old Testament, INCLUDING BEFORE THE CREATION, should be “Gods.” If evidence is wanted in the English translation, one need not leave the first chapter of Genesis:
“And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness….”
If we are to interpret the verses listed above (Isaiah verses) at face value, then we would have an issue. Who would it be that God was talking to? And who is the other person that God is forming man in the image of? I don’t want to sound condescending here, but I do not believe God is schizophrenic. From these findings I am of the belief that God was not alone in the beginning. Just for good measure, let’s mention God’s reaction when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit: “And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become as one of US…” (Gen. 3:22).

-From the above I submit that God was not alone in the creation. There were “Gods” in the beginning (let us, our image). This would mean that Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 46:9, and 45:21-22 do not mean that God is the only God there is, though it might appear that way if isolated from the rest of scripture. I think the Lord is really emphasizing the importance of our commitment to and worship of Him in these instances (again, this is just my understanding, which isn’t much).

-As to the Isaiah 43:10 reference, I noticed something I hadn’t before that was very interesting. The Hebrew form of “god” here (in the Hebrew text) is not the same as the other three (and most of the other references in the Tanakh-Old Testament). It is translated from אל, a short form of איל (ah-yil), which basically mean a chief, something/one very strong. This would be in harmony with a verse from Psalms 82 (which we quoted earlier). Verse 1 reads, “God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.”
Again, this reference emphasizes to me the reverence due to God the Father, and recognizes Him as the “chief” or “head” among the gods, and holding a unique station.

COMMENT PART 3:
Furthermore; you and I cannot become a god; no matter how hard you try. God does not have a god-wife. God has always been God; He was not a man from another planet before He became God. If He did, where did it all start? And if it had a start then it has to have an end. God is timeless; He has always existed and will always exist. Jesus did not exist separate from God before the creation of the universe. Lucifer is not the brother of Jesus; he is a fallen angel. I could go on but I won't. I pray that the lies of the Mormon truth would be revealed to you. I pray that God will give you the strength to step away from these lies and see the truth.

RESPONSE:
-There is a spiritual mind-set that I call “Eternal Tunnel-Vision.” It basically means that some people only focus on a few small aspects of the eternal gospel and don’t consider or believe there is more to the big picture that is available or seek after it. I have wondered many times what other faiths consider heaven to be. I have wondered what other people consider heaven to be, and why they want to get there so bad. Is it really a place where saved people strum a harp and sing hymns everyday, all day, for eternity? Is there something more to it?

-Faithful saints are promised that, if faithful, they will receive a glorified body like Christ’s (Phil. 3:21), be like Christ (1 John 3:2), and inherit ALL things with Christ (Romans 8:17, Hebrews 1:2). So what are we if we are like Christ and possess ALL things? It’s overwhelming to think about, but I believe that would be a God.

-I have not read in the Bible that God does not have a wife. I do however find him not alone before the creation, as discussed above. God also commands man to marry (not part of law of Moses) saying that it is not good for man to be alone. Is there conclusive proof in the Bible that God is married or not? I have not found it. I do however find more evidence pointing towards yay, than nay.

-Speculating on the ontological aspects of God’s life is fruitless. The fact is that we time-inhibited mortals cannot wrap our minds around infinity. The fact of the matter is that no mortal knows the whole story. The Bible is a woefully insignificant spec of a record in terms of what’s been happening in the cosmos for eternity. It would be rash for anyone to declare they know with certainty when and how any being came into existence. As for me, I am not concerned with these things. They will all be revealed at some point.

-As to Christ and Lucifer’s being brothers, there is already an entry on this subject posted on my site.

CONCLUSION
Thanks for bearing with me. I wanted to make sure we cover the points thoroughly. I also appreciate the genuine interest in my eternal well-being. By the way, my greeting at the top means “I love the Tanakh (Bible). And do you?”

I am grateful that the “Mormon truth,” as it was called above, has been revealed to me. I have studied and researched a lot. I have many physical evidences supporting my faith. But, the most powerful and compelling buttress of my faith is the still small voice, which fills my soul with faith, hope, and the pure love of Christ.

I do pray that my Heavenly Father will give me strength and grace to stand firm and undaunted in the truth. The Truth that has been Restored.

Best Wishes,
Rusty
truthisrestored.blogspot.com

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